‍Georgia: 

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Hello, and welcome to “Watt's up with energy?”, a gridX podcast.

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I'm your host, Georgia, and this episode, I have Steffen Binzel, the Managing Director from Densys pv5 joining me.

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So let's just jump right in.

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Steffen, thanks so much for joining me.

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Steffen:

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Yeah, thank you for the invitation.

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Georgia: 

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Before we get into it, can you introduce yourself, what brought you into the world of energy?

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Steffen: 

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Yeah, sure.

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Yeah, my name is Steffen Binzel.

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I'm Managing Director of Densys pv5 or Densys Group. We are a wholesale company. How did I end up in the energy field? Pretty slim answer, but my dad was the reason for the fault. He founded a company, and I think it was 2011. He needed some support, some more support, and I figured that it's time to move on. I was working as a consultant.

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Georgia:

And then, so how long have you been with Densys? That was since 2011, or?

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Steffen:

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2011, yes.

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Georgia:

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Oh, that was, okay.

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Steffen:

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Yeah, that's when I joined in.

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Georgia:

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Okay, nice. And then, for our listeners who might not know, could you explain what Densys pv5 does?

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Steffen:

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Yes. Actually, as a wholesaler, I think it's pretty simple.

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Georgia:

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I mean, yeah.

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Steffen:

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We buy big amounts of components, and then we sell them in smaller units. That's, of course, our daily business. But we also do a lot of consulting. We support our customers.

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We do a lot of design, inversions, as well as mounting systems. So if you would be a customer and there's a rule for you to complicate it or you do not have enough time, you do all the planning, then you could contact us.

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We will take care of it and would support you during the process.

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Georgia:

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In your opinion, what do you see as some of the biggest challenges facing installers today, and how does Densys help installers through those challenges?

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Steffen:

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Yeah, I think we have to make maybe a quick step back. When we look back to 2022, 2023, we had a crazy market demand was, so to speak, infinity. There was, no one really knew how to build and cover all this demand. And so that was a crazy market. And directly from this market, we switched to overproduction, where our price collapsed. And today we have very big pressure on the market, strong competition between the installers.

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I think that's something that has changed dramatically within a very short period of time. And I think still a lot of installers have problems to switch that quick from the one market to the other market. And your question was what do we do? How can we support our customers? I'd say first of all, we have a lot of experience.

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It's not the first time that we had a crazy market trend upwards, and now a market trend downwards. But it's important to mention that even though the market is decreasing at the moment, we still have a very, very strong market. So it's not comparable to 2013, for example, where the market more or less collapsed completely.

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We still have a very strong market in Germany, but the competition is bigger because we had new companies that entered the market, and now there's the phase of cleaning up. And again, I think we can support with all our experience, the people, the manpower that we have, the ideas, I think it's more about... We're not only selling products, we also help our customers to get an understanding of the market, what works, what does not work. We can explain them how successful companies, and there are still successful companies out there that are growing even at the moment.

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And we try to explain to them how things, or which things you have to change to be successful even in a more competitive market as it is at the moment. And something else we do is that we focus on brands, products with a lower market penetration, so that you have less competition. For example, there are some Chinese manufacturers. I'd say seven out of ten offer the same module, and at the end, it's only the price. And I think what's important in the situation right now is that you have to be... You know, everyone comes with a gray suit, and you have to be the one with the purple one.

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You know, you have to stand out, and people have to recognize you, and I think that's very important. So, for example, on the marginal side, we have Bauasola and Ying Li. Both brands are not that dominant in the market. And that's where you can come with additional USPs, which both brands have.

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I think that's something that really helps to make the difference, you know, to get in the conversation with the end customer and to get the focus away from price to products and to your company. And of course, we always look for new products. Which help our customers to make a difference. Again, what I explained with the modules, the same as with other components, I think that the Eon Home is a perfect solution for customers at the moment to make a difference, to switch from just price, price, price to solutions.

I think that's something where you can catch a customer. I think it's you widen, so to speak, your customer base, because it's a product for young people, for techies. And I think that's where you can really make a difference. And in addition, the big online distributors like EnPAL or 1.5, they already have those home energy systems, HEMS systems, and I think that young people, people that see their adverts, and then it's, I think, easy to catch them.

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And at the moment, if you do not offer that, someone looks at your website and then they see, well, there's just, you know, modules, inverters, batteries, but, you know, it's not maybe that sexy or interesting. And I think with a good product, innovative product as the one from Eon, I think that's where you can make a difference. And I think that helps a lot selling at the moment.

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Georgia:

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So speaking of that, that kind of, so is that why you guys offer your bundled solutions?

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Steffen:

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The reason why we're selling bundles is that it just makes it more convenient for the installer. First of all, not every combination is possible. So it's inverter, manufacturer A says, you can only pile up to three batteries, and the other says two is fine. And so it's not allowed to make every combination. And that's something we take care of.

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We only sell bundles that are proven for both sides, inverter and battery. That's one reason. And the second reason is now with the Eon Home. There's a whitelist, so not every combination and not every inverter manufacturer can be used. So again, it's very important that we kind of make the decision easier for the installer. We have a very good web shop, so you can make some easy choices. And then at the end, you only have one or two packages, bundles that fit, and then it's very easy to choose. I mean, at the end, I don't know, we have several of hundreds of only more than, way more than thousand inverter bundles or inverter battery bundles.

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And that makes it kind of confusing to pick the right one. But in our shop, you can also you can you can you can yeah, choose how big the inverter should be and also the battery. So with, you know, making a choice on those two sides, and then the brand, and at the end, you only have one or two left, and that's very quick and very easy to to make to make a decision.

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Georgia:

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And I know you said that you really don't have many touch points with the end users. Have you been able to see, though, any kind of preference change with end users, like what installers now are requesting? What have those been?

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Steffen:

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Yeah, I think in general, you can you can see that a couple of years ago, it was always a question, does it make sense to buy a battery system? And nowadays, there's no discussion. Everyone knows PV plus battery, that's one package, that's it.

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Georgia:

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So it's the gateway drug.

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Steffen:

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And another change that I think has occurred is that end customers are very good informed. Yeah, they use the Internet, YouTube, and so on. So when the installer has his pitch, you always have to be aware of a customer that is really good informed.

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Georgia:

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On your website, you say that you can help installers navigate the jungle of requirements. Are there any specific examples you have of this, of a requirement you've had to help many installers navigate?

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Steffen:

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Yeah, I think it's...Here we have to distinguish between smaller installations and the big installations. Small installations are relatively easy, relatively easy. But there we have paragraph 14a of the Energy Industry Act, Eniki-Wirsch-Gesetz. And this actually requires that you need somehow a brain that, or the easiest way to fulfill this regulation is to have a brain, an eonome, that takes care of all the regulations that they are fulfilled.

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And then we have the big installations, the big installations. We have in Germany some hurdles.

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Georgia:

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When you say big installations really quick, just like small would be on a residential house.

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Steffen:

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Residential, right. And then it's like, it starts to become a bit more complicated with 100k, and then there's some more steps after that, where it gets more and more complicated. And so there's, for example, depending on the circumstance and the size of the installation, you have to pass a certification process, which is first of all quite expensive, it's around 10,000 euro, and it's also very time consuming.

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And that's really a pain in the neck, so to speak, for the installer. I think everyone who goes through this process the first time is really struggling. And that's again something where we can support with dense solutions. We're very experienced, we have already managed this process several times.

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So if you have installers, if you have a bigger installation where you're kind of interested in, but you kind of also have respect in terms of, oh, I've never done that before, no problem, get in contact with us, and we get in contact with dense solutions, or we get you in contact with dense solutions, and then they will take care of you and your project.

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And after, I think, two or three projects, maybe that's something where you get really excited, you get to go through the certain, no, not really, it really gets excited to go through that process, but I think then you get more experience, and then this kind of fear of bigger projects kind of disappears.

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And again, that's something where we support.

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Georgia:

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Do you have any advice for any installers who would be looking to expand their solar business?

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Steffen:

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Go for it. I think for me, it's very motivating every day to wake up and say, well, it's not only business, and of course, it's a lot of fun with our team and the people, but it's also just great to know that at the end of the day, the world is a little bit greener, and I think that's very motivating.

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Georgia:

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And then are there any exciting developments or new services at Densys that you'd like to share?

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Steffen:

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Yeah.

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It's still a little bit secret, but it's maybe the right place to open that secret. At the moment, we're developing a platform for installers so that they can digitalize their process. So I think at the moment, many installers need quite a while for an offer.

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I'd say very often too long.I would say that the end customer is not really willing to wait long if they invite you to, if you invite them home, then it's all over to your house to make a planning to see how everything looks like.

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I think the expectation is that within one or two, three days, you have an offer. And I think the reality is one to three weeks. And I think that's where you lose a lot of customers. And so, our solution will be very fast, so that you can create an offer within 60 seconds.

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In addition, the entire process afterwards will also be digitalized, so the installer can do all this planning, staffing of employees and so on in our platform, and that will make the process in tool much quicker.

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Then, customer will have the chance to follow the process, so they are also part of the platform. And so, I think a lot of things, like documentation and so on, that's something we're going to take care of, and so it doesn't have to do anything. So, it's a big, big time saving, and I think a big step. And again, it's, as I mentioned before, with other things, I think it's important today to make a difference.

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Our main customers, they are three to ten men. So, and then you have to do everything. Yes, I think that's something many people do not understand. If you have your own business, you have to be human resource, resource, you have marketing, you have sales, you have to buy things, you have to, you know, everything, everything. Tax, everything has to be taken care of, and you have limited time.

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So, if we can make a change there, and then there's more time for offers, quicker service, quicker installation, then I think that's a big advantage for our customers that use that platform, and also for the end customer.

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Georgia:

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That actually brings us into our rapid fire question round. If you had to describe the perfect PV system in just three words, what would they be?

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Steffen:

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As big as possible, good quality, and smart.

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Georgia:

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Hey, big, quality, smart. Like it.

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What's been your favorite piece of energy news or development from the past year?

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Steffen:

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Actually, I'd say all this dynamic stuff. I think that was the biggest change last year, and I can see that it's, of course, something we have to learn. I think that's something we really have to be aware of.

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The installers have to understand, the end customer has to understand. It's kind of comparable to the situation 2013, where we started with battery systems, and at the beginning, no one was able to sell because we didn't know how.

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And today, now we have to figure out strategies how we can sell it, because I think it's a very, very important product. It's for the end customer very important because they can save money. It's very important for the installer to make a difference.

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And it's very important for the Energiewende to continue.

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Georgia:

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Okay. The funniest or strangest thing you've seen happen on an installation site?

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Steffen:

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Yeah, as I mentioned before, we have Densys Solutions, and Densys Solutions is our system company, and they take care of our installers that have bigger installations, and they're kind of afraid of processing them or offering, and Densys Solutions also can help with ground-mounted systems.

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So it's not only on-roof, it's also off-roof on the ground, where you can support. And now step back. We also invested in own projects. So we have 14 megawatts, I think it is, in own projects, investments.

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And one of those installations, we had a, we bought, someone invested in poor products, too cheap products, and so we bought a six-megawatt installation in 2015, I think it was, and we had to flip the modules to stronger modules. And the company that made the installation back then was not fast enough mounting them.

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So what they did is they put one on the mounting system, and then they wanted to screw them up. And the time was not, they were not fast enough, and suddenly there was a storm, and the modules were flying around like cards. So that was kind of funny. Of course, it was a big damage.

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Likely, that was an insurance company. But that was something I've never seen that before. It was like, I mean, the module is not that easy. It's quite heavy. And it was like a card game. They were flying around. And someone even video-taped it.

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So that, I think, was one of the funniest things that I've experienced.

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Georgia:

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What do you think will be the first European country to achieve Net Zero?

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Steffen:

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Germany.

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Georgia:

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Yeah.

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Steffen:

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I mean, we're already close to or over 60%.

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Georgia:

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Yeah.

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Steffen:

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So it's not that far to go. On the other hand, we always have to keep in mind that the electricity consumption will increase dramatically. So I think during the political discussions, I hope the information is all right. But it's going to be like 30% more. Energy will be needed, I think it was 2030 or 2035. So even to maintain the 62%, we have to continue. Otherwise, we will get it backwards, it will decrease again, decrease in process.

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Georgia:

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Well, thank you so much, Steffen, for taking part in the podcast. It's been great getting to know a little bit more about Densys pv5.

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Steffen:

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Thank you for the interesting questions, especially at the end.

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Georgia:

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If you'd like to learn more about the world of renewable energy or energy management systems, be sure to check out our website gridx.ai, where we produce regular blogs and glossaries about the subject.

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You can also follow us on LinkedIn or on Twitter and Instagram @getgridx.